Well-balanced sound can be heard uniformly at any location. I think the ultimate speaker for my home use (assuming box speaker style) would be a speaker which has very wide directivity, but which nevertheless has even dispersion with frequency. 1. In considering a new 7.2.4 set-up with existing Polk LSi speakers (for an earlier 7.1 set-up), I am considering 700-LS ceiling speakers for the ceiling. Angling the speakers to optimise their dispersion makes a lot of sense. The really important thing is to maintain proper spacing and angling of the ceiling speakers from the LCRs and rear surrounds. If we primarily use our front row, but about 25% of the time have someone in the back row, would this be ideal, or should we look for making the “box” of 4 ceiling speakers around both rows like other mentioned at CEDIA 2014 and 2015? It’s not really possible to provide more specific advice without looking at your current layout and what speakers you are planning on using for Atmos. Some say that the typical horizontal woofer/tweeter/woofer center speaker design is a flawed concept (see reference #1 and #2 below). matched enough to the point that I really can’t tell where the bass is coming from and I think that’s good? Hi Nyal. The ONLY way to know if your speaker has these issues and where they are is to measure them or to have the manufacturer provide off axis data in both the lateral and vertical planes. In order to create enveloping sound fields and precise localization of individual effects, this speaker also utilizes Klipsch’s Wide Dispersion Surround TechnologyTM. The sound emitted by a speaker can be thought of as a cone that expands in area as distance from the speaker increases. Our primary seating is roughly in the middle of the room, no more than 8′ from the front wall. Not to my knowledge…I’m not sure what the hold up is! I do not have space below my TV for a vertical floorstanding speaker. Hi Nyal, thank you for excellent writeup and helpful comments. They don't mention a specific angle though, they just say "angle slightly". This entails an off-axis optimisation of the audio reproduction. Most speakers have pretty terrible response off-axis and thus make a pretty “bad” surround speaker or ceiling speaker. The main reason is that Dipoles are very poor at surround localization, they are intended more to provide spaciousness and avoid localization. I’ve tried front heights and rear overheads and still not diggin it. I’ve tried several different configurations and not getting what I want from Atmos or dolby. In-Ceiling Planar Speakers. 1.) Required coverage / dispersion, speakers pointing straight down. Of course you can reuse your Polk speakers, but I’m not familiar with the specifics of the dispersion on the surrounds you have. I don’t have dispersion specs from speaker manufacture, but I’m looking at New Wave Audio C-890K’s. TOA Electronics Europe GmbH . They have great horizontal AND vertical dispersion. I’ve heard them paired with other Revel speakers as well as some JBL speakers from the Synthesis line (M2) seem to be a nice match. Most speakers (with exception of some coaxials) have a suckout somewhere off axis due to path length differences between the tweeter and midrange drivers. 8 foot 6 inch ceiling. Always lay out the surround speakers with respect to the MLP! Not sure there’s much you can do about this, short of using speakers with an angled baffle. You are right, generally it’s the tweeter that becomes directional and so this is the main part of the speaker that benefits from being angled. 2. agree that the best approach is a timbre matched set of LCRs. Polk Center CS20 center, Polk TSI200 SR, SL and SVS SP 2000 sub. An existing room with 7.5′ ceilings (13×19) opens up in the rear of the new room. In my room I can have a 17 degree horizontal separation with the rear surrounds IF I place the top-rear surrounds at the minimum Dolby recommended vertical angle of 125 degrees. The Atlas Sound FAP42T Strategy II Series 4" in-ceiling coaxial loudspeaker combines superior coaxial loudspeaker performance with wide dispersion and easy installation. The ceiling height is very low at 7’3″ since it’s a 70 year old home. What do you set the sound processor to for those speakers? 2. Polk TSI500 Front left. The room is ~15′ x 20 deep, and the ceiling height for the left 2/3 of the room is 9′. Secondly, my in ceiling are 16 ohm, 150W, while side surrounds and back surrounds are 8 ohms, and fronts/center are 6 ohms. Personally I’d rather do the former approach, especially if my second row wouldn’t be used that much. Required coverage / dispersion, speakers aimed at point between two seating rows. http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/trimless-100/ct165. Select your location and we'll connect you to the premium custom installer in your area. So two questions: 1) What in-ceiling speakers can be aimed at the listening area? 3.) I agree with all points. TEL +49 (0) 40 25 17 190. Uniform sound output levels are achievable not only directly under the speaker, but also over a wide radius. For the rear Atmos it will make things worse, as the speakers will point at back wall. I have a room with a 15 to 25 foot high angled ceiling. Nyal, Great article, very informative. Klipsch offers a wide range of in-ceiling and in-wall speakers so you can create a complete home theater system or distributed speaker system throughout the house. Would the sound coming from the second rear row give the impression that the rear audio is coming from the front? A 1-inch titanium tweeter in a patented 60-90-110-degree horn that features Variable Coverage Technology, or VCT, allows the speaker to create precise imaging and localized sound fields. Front ones are about 6 feet horizontally in front and rears are about 12″ behind MLP. I have a vaulted ceiling with 3.5 ft flat roof, 6.5 ft vaulted ceiling and 5.5 ft side walls. I want to build dedicated Home heater in the ground floor. room is a box 15×18 x7. With the idea that it is important to angle the speakers towards the listening area, the front ceiling speakers make complete sense. You may want to consider just having two top speakers, as you will likely not get much benefit from going to four with your rears positioned where they are. The problem with the Monoprice speakers (and frankly, most in-wall and in-ceiling speakers) is their dispersion isn't specified. If you read the Dolby Atmos home theater paper, it states that ceiling speakers should have a 90 degree dispersion pattern out to 10khz. The speakers are toed in towards the 2nd row because that provides the best coverage of the two rows. It’s definitely worth considering which are the seats that are really important to optimize for. so angling them is allowed in an Atmos setup. 9′ ceiling height. It’s obviously not as simple as this, but it is true that high frequencies can fall off significantly even at small off axis angles. 2. 2. http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=89614. I’ve read from Dolby sources that Bipolar surround speakers (but NOT Dipole) can be very effective in a Dolby Atmos setup. I think you are confusing Bipole and Dipole. The Polk Audio RC80i 2-way In-ceiling Speaker delivers incredible stereo sound to any room in your home from speakers you can barely see, without using any floor or shelf space. Bipoles have no on-axis null, Dipoles DO. We are not hardcore but still want to have the most appropriate placement. The room is 17′ 8″ front to back by 16′ 6″ wide. If you know where these suckouts are you can position the speakers accordingly. Our process is as follows: You need to look at dispersion requirements side on (i.e. In-Ceiling the speakers are flat, but have 110 degree dispersion. Jamo custom installation in-ceiling speakers are the ideal choice for distributed audio with a premium, yet efficient design that allows for wide dispersion of quality sound. It looks funky until you think about the engineering reasons why it is done. Earlier in the comments you indicated one should have at least 15 degree horizontal separation between surround speakers and top-back in-ceiling speakers. F SERIES WIDE-DISPERSION SPEAKER SYSTEM Innovative octagonal horn provides wide dispersion Significantly improved 110° × 100° high-frequency dispersion angle, for better sound coverage and a more even tonal balance. Physical speakers are the only practical solution here, and direct-radiating models with wide, symmetrical dispersion aimed straight down are likely to provide the best experience for listeners in the largest number of seats throughout the room. Is that conventional or are the back pair farther back and toed in towards the MLP? The rear surrounds are 9′ behind the main listening position, and are 15′ apart. I was wondering if anyone can advise if these speakers would be ok for ceiling use? If you understand typical speaker dispersion profiles then you’ll know that very few speakers have such wide coverage. MS3.20 LCR and MS3.10 Surrounds (same driver and tweeter but in a smaller rear ported cabinet) WIDE DISPERSION All speakers by DALI are designed around the principle of wide dispersion. Very educational. 20537 Hamburg . side to side, across width of seating row). will Atmos, DTSx or Dolby/ Plus utilize them the same or will I lose effects with high programed vs overhead. Agree with all your points. 6.5CS. Whats the most efficient way to get the best out of the 12 surrounds. Nyal, What do you think about CBT (Keele’s specific approach) to ceiling speakers in a 3d audio system? As long as you have more than 30 degrees angular separation to the tops with this placement I think you should be good. 10 speaker layout tips for Dolby Atmos, DTS.X and Auro, http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/trimless-100/ct165, https://www.cnet.com/news/attention-home-theater-shoppers-think-twice-before-buying-a-center-channel-speaker/, http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=89614, http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/2013108home-theater-seat-layout/. The SD5 70V commercial drop ceiling speaker is an ideal speaker for conference rooms, training rooms, classrooms, lecture halls, office spaces, and more. Use Wide Dispersion Speakers: Eggers says wide dispersion patterns (+/- 45 degrees from 100Hz to 10KHz) are ideal, especially in a room with 8- to 14-foot tall ceilings. A VOXX International CompanyCalifornia Supply Chain Transparency Disclosure, Click here to send an email to ProSystemDesign@klipsch.com, Two 1” Titanium tweeters in vertically stacked tractrix horns, Bass Reflex via 1.6” diameter port - Front Flush with Ceiling. You may end up with 4 speakers on the ceiling but you would end up with some speakers too close to you which is definitely a no-no! Do you think its good configuration? At 1600 for 4 I want to make sure. Great article. I do not think a 1′ deep, 5′ wide soffit is something to really worry about, and you’d certainly not see much if any “boundary gain”. Its like the difference between cooking and baking Any helpful ideas will be very much appreciated! The seating is 15′ from an 85″ Samsung tv. Used by professionals, this speaker is designed with a 15 degree angle that allows you to tilt it towards the listening area. Polk Audio RC80i. I’m trying to figure out optimal ceiling placement for my selected speakers. Well requirement #1 is timbre matching of all speakers. Your email address will not be published. ceiling height on the viewing wall is 9ft 12 ft. Speakers with pivoting tweeters seem to need less depth for the ceiling cut-out than those which rotate the entire speaker. But, I think that ceiling mounted would be better all other things being equal. JBL Pro I think also make this kind of speaker. I’m no only 7′ from the sl and rl and 9-10′ from the fronts. We consider the example of a system with 4 ceiling speakers and two seating rows and show how dispersion requirements change for: Dispersion is another word for coverage – the question we are asking is “does each member of the audience hear the same sound?”. In addition, the FF 120T offers an extraordinarily wide dispersion of 170 degrees, providing a very wide room coverage pattern which is especially important for rooms with low ceilings. 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